4.58 Alex Kocman, David Schrock, & Stephen Wellum • Interview • “Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for Immigration”

Episode 198
59 Min
December 22, 2025
ABOUT THE EPISODE
Listen in as David Schrock & Stephen Wellum interview Alex Kocman on his COA Longform Essay "Was Jesus a Refugee? And Why It Matters for Immigration"
Timestamps
  • 00:30 – Intro
  • 04:50 – Alex’s Role in ABWE & Christmas Teaching
  • 07:37 – What is a Refugee?
  • 09:22 – How Do We Seek to Correctly Interpret Scripture?
  • 11:20 – Refugees and Migration
  • 15:10 – What Does Scripture Say in Regards to the Refugee, Sojourner, etc.?
  • 18:00 – What Makes it Difficult to Think in Categories?
  • 21:25 – Thinking About How These Things Affect Nationhood
  • 25:52 – What Key Things Should We See from Matthew 2?
  • 29:39 – What is the Main Emphasis of the Gospel of Matthew?
  • 33:00 – What are the Dissimilarities Between Immigrant and Refugee?
  • 36:57 – What are the Church’s and State’s Responsibilities Towards These People?
  • 43:40 – Dr. Wellum’s Perspective on Immigration
  • 50:26 – The Order Amoris
  • 56:14 – Final Thoughts
  • 57:23 – Outro
Resources to Click
ON THIS EPISODE

Authors

  • Alex Kocman is the Director of Communications and Engagement for ABWE and serves as an elder and as worship director at Faith Bible Fellowship Church of York (PA). He serves as general editor for Message Magazine and co-hosts The Missions Podcast. After earning his M.A. in Communication and B.S. in Biblical Studies, he served as an online apologetics instructor with Liberty University and a youth pastor in Pennsylvania, where he now resides with his wife and four children. You can find out more by visiting alexkocman.com.

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  • David Schrock is the pastor for preaching and theology at Occoquan Bible Church in Woodbridge, Virginia. David is a two-time graduate of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He is a founding faculty member and professor of theology at Indianapolis Theology Seminary. And he is the author of Royal Priesthood and Glory of God along with many journal articles and online essays.

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  • Stephen Wellum is professor of Christian theology at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky. He received his MDiv and PhD from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. He is the author of numerous essays, articles, and books. He is also the co-author with Peter Gentry of Kingdom through Covenant, 2nd edition (Crossway, 2012, 2018) and the author of God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of the Person of Christ (Crossway, 2016) and Systematic Theology, Volume 1: From Canon to Concept (B&H Academic, 2024).

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